Tuesday, October 18, 2005

Debate update

I'm just back from the moderating the mayoral debate sponsored by the Descro Neighborhood Task Force. With only two candidates, we experimented with a more interactive format than in most debates. Panelists Jim Van Arsdale and Royal Johnson took turns asking questions in four-minute blocks, which allowed follow-up questions on key issues and made for some interesting exchanges. Don't ask me what anybody actually said: I was too busy monitoring the second hand on my wristwatch.

Johnson asked some questions along these lines, and I was relieved to hear that both candidates seemed to have as much trouble sorting this issue out as I do.

But my impression was that Tussing did somewhat better overall than he did in the six-candidate primary debate. The longer format allowed more of his in-depth knowledge to surface, and his sense of humor showed through (before the debate, he suggested that he and Garver should just give each other's answers, since both had heard them often enough before). The format also forced him to answer some pretty tough questions about his agreement not to work for the city and his probable relations with city staff, and he answered those questions fully and without flinching.

Garver doesn't quite have Tussing's natural ease in front of a crowd, but he did OK, too, and he defended himself well from a cheapshot question posed from the audience by Mary Jo Fox, who essentially accused him of using his consulting business as a front to pump campaign funds into his own pocket. Pretty dumb.

So what difference does it make who wins? Not much, probably. More laughs with Tussing, no doubt, and possibly more public confrontations. That makes good copy. Garver might work harder and push more initiatives and projects -- maybe good, maybe not. Frankly, I'm still not sure how I will vote. Where's Bovee when you need him?

67 comments:

Anonymous said...

"Pretty dumb", and Mary Joke Faux used in the same sentence? I'd say that's pretty accurate! Sheesh, if mary joke is against Garver, I JUST MIGHT BE FOR HIM! But it is kinda comical to see mary joke, who worked for Racicrotch for cryin' out loud, to accuse ANYONE of ANYTHING underhanded! I mean, Marky and his entire admin were the masters of underhandedness! I think that mary joke faux is just a nasty little person by nature!

Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers!

M Fox said...

Mr. Garver's primary finance report shows that his campaign paid his business (called OTB) more than $1,800 in a lump sum payment. The description of what this amount was for campaign design and planning-- whatever that is. Not one tangible item is listed. Nor does it say "reimbursement."

Mr. Garver claimed it was a reimbursement for expenses ( the report didn't say that) for things like postage (it didn't say that either).

The point is, a campaign should pay for items, especially $1,800 worth of items directly from the campaign and not from a candidate's personal business.

It looks bad. And $1,800 is a lot of money. Furthermore, the description "campaign planning and design" is pretty vague-- they are intangible items by any measure.

A campaign should strive to stay above even the appearance of impropriety and Mr. Garver, as a professional political consultant should know that.

Anonymous said...

Mary Jo Fox a member of Faith Chapel cheap shotting another memeber of the same church. ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.


I wonder of they both sit on amen row on Sunday...

M Fox said...

Actually, I don't go to Faith Chapel, but many of my friends and colleagues do. It's a great church. I go to a wonderful church in the Heights, which shall remain nameless because church affiliation shouldn't be part of a political campaign, at least in my opinion.

M Fox said...

The exact quote from Mr. Garver's finance report reads as follows:

Expenditures- This Reporting Period

OTB Consulting, Inc.
PO Box 51312
Billings, MT 59105

Purpose:
"Campaign design, develop and structure"

Date:
05/02/2005

Primary:
$1,843.72


There is no mention of any tangible items reimbursed as Mr. Garver claimed in a public forum 10/18/05. The description of expenditures indicates an intangible service.

There is no other way to describe this expenditure except to deduce that Mr. Garver is paying his company to do campaign work for himself. It isn't right.

Anonymous said...

"a campaign should strive to stay above even the appearance of impropriety"!...........BUT NOT CHEAP SHOTS! Give it up, mar. YOU WORKED FOR THE DIRTIEST ADMINISTRATION THIS STATE EVER HAD!

M Fox said...

I think at least 75% of Montanans would disagree with you about Governor Racicot, but even a minority has a right to make their case.

Anonymous said...

I don't think there's an accountant out there who would advise a company owner to run his personal expenses through the company. Not good accounting principles. Maybe Al hasn't taken that course in accounting in his mayor-by-mail correspondence courses.

Anonymous said...

Mar, did you pull that 75% figure out of thin air or thin arse? My guess would be the latter, although I not had the occasion to very that! (thin that is) But ya know, after dereg, enron, bush pal/lobbyist, Montana rated last by all measures, I'll be darned if I can find ANYBODY who voted for Ratco! So, if you wouldn't mind, please supply a source for that figure, or will ASSume it came from a thin nether region!

M Fox said...

The last poll taken by Lee Enterprises on the approval of Marc Racicot was 75% So, I guess the ball is in your court to prove that number has changed or diminished. You can find those poll results in the Gazette archives. I trust you know how to help yourself to that information.

M Fox said...

Racicot gets top ratings for job
By CHARLES S. JOHNSON
Gazette State Bureau

HELENA – Gov. Marc Racicot leaves office just as he spent most of his term, topping other top state elected officials and President Clinton in job performance ratings, a new Gazette State Poll shows.

Racicot has a positive job performance rating with Montanans of 74 percent, followed by U.S. Sen. Max Baucus with 58 percent, Sen. Conrad Burns with 51 percent and Rep. Rick Hill and Clinton tied at 46 percent, according to a Gazette State Poll taken by Mason-Dixon Polling and Research Inc., a Washington, D.C., company. The poll, taken Dec. 14-16, has a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.


The Gazette State Poll asked 625 registered Montana voters to rate the job performance of elected officials as excellent, pretty good, fair or poor. The excellent and pretty good scores are added together to get a positive job performance rating, while the fair and poor ratings are added to obtain a negative job performance rating.

Racicot, a Republican who is prevented by term limits from running again, has had positive job performance scores of at least 70 percent in the Gazette polls since December 1994, two years into his eight-year tenure as governor, and it peaked at 83 percent in December 1998. Racicot, who narrowly won election in 1992 against Democrat Dorothy Bradley, built his positive job performance ratings slowly, with a 47 percent in May 1993 and 56 percent in May 1994 and 69 percent in September 1994.

In the latest poll, Racicot had a 74 percent positive job performance score (32 percent gave him grades of excellent and 42 percent of pretty good) and 25 percent negative job performance score (15 percent ranking him as fair and 10 percent as poor), with 1 percent undecided.

The poll also asked Montana voters whether they approved or disapproved of Racicot’s role in the presidential campaign of President-elect George W. Bush. The question noted that Racicot has traveled around the nation to serve as a primary spokesman on behalf of Bush.

Sixty-five percent said they approved of Racicot’s role in Bush’s campaign, while 27 percent disapproved and 8 percent were undecided.

M Fox said...

And this poll that showed Racicot would beat Senator Baucus easily--if he were so inclined--but he isn't.

Poll looks ahead: Racicot leads Baucus who would thump Hill
By CHARLES S. JOHNSON
Gazette State Bureau

HELENA – Outgoing Republican Gov. Marc Racicot holds a large lead over Democratic U.S. Sen. Max Baucus if the 2002 Senate election were held today, but Baucus has a big lead over departing Republican Rep. Rick Hill for the Senate in 2002, a new Gazette State Poll shows.

The poll also showed Rep.-elect Dennis Rehberg, a Republican, slightly ahead of Democrat Brian Schweitzer if the 2002 race for Montana’s lone U.S. House seat were held today.

The trial matchups were included in the Gazette poll of 625 registered voters (315 women and 310 men) taken Dec. 14-16 by Mason-Dixon Polling & Research Inc. of Washington, D.C. The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

Baucus, who is already raising money for his race in two years for his fifth six-year term, has no announced Republican opponents yet. Racicot, a popular governor, has said he doesn’t expect to seek elective office again but is expected to be urged to challenge Baucus.

The poll shows Racicot ahead of Baucus 56 percent to 37 percent if the election were held today, with 7 percent undecided. Men back Racicot by a 61 percent to 34 percent margin, with 5 percent undecided, while women favor him by a 51 percent to 40 percent edge, with 9 percent undecided.

Anonymous said...

What's cheap about asking Mr. Garver to his face if he thinks it's appropriate for a candidate to profit from his own campaign contributions?

Fox asked the question and Mr. Garver answered. He doesn't have a problem with paying his business $1,843.72 from his campaign for "campaign, design and structure."

I've never seen a candidate pay himself for campaigning, but it may be a new trend. The voters can decide if it's acceptable to them.

In Al Garver's words, "This stinks to high heaven!"

Anonymous said...

Cheap is using OLD POLLS! Balls in YOUR court, Mar! Last time I checked, CLINTON WASN'T THE PRESIDENT!

Anonymous said...

Well, a quick poll of my coworkers showed that marky is bout as popular with Montanans as mary jo is with judy mars!

M Fox said...

It's your responsibility to prove YOUR point. I've proven mine by quoting the most recent poll that I know of. If you've got contradictory information, Lar, put up or shut up! It seems you have a penchant for spouting opinions without anything to back you up. Don't you have a class to teach or preparations to make? Does your principal know you're goofing off?

5 said...

M Fox, lets stop bashing Garver and let Tussing ride to glory on his own merits, please?
And not to kick a dead horse but a Gazette poll of 625 people is worthless really.

Anonymous said...

"I don't think there's an accountant out there who would advise a company owner to run his personal expenses through the company."


Ya might want to ask Mike Erickson about that...

M Fox said...

Okay, Tony. How's this? Ron Tussing has never paid his own company a profit from his campaign contributions and never will.

Anonymous said...

"There is no other way to describe this expenditure except to deduce that Mr. Garver is paying his company to do campaign work for himself. It isn't right."


seems trivial compared to Judas destroying evidence in a criminal investigation and obstructing justice...It just isnt right...

Anonymous said...

evidence, please?

Eric Coobs said...

This issue isn't Democrat vs. Republican, Racicot vs. Baucus, anything like it. It's about who our next Mayor should be.

I like Mary Jo Fox, and I don't think she deserves criticism for supporting the Chief. A lot of people I respect are supporting the Chief too.

While either candidate will do a better job than our current Mayor, it's no secret I support Al Garver. He was the first candidate to discuss real issues, and he's carrying no baggage from the mess downtown like the Chief is.

And, not discussing the Constitution, or legal issues, the spirit of his severance agreement meant he had to leave, and he's breaking it if he becomes Tina Voleks boss.

Go ahead bloggers, flame away at me for not supporting Ron Tussing! I can take it!

M Fox said...

Hey, Eric! May the best man win.

Eric Coobs said...

Your right Mary Jo - the voters will get it right either way!

And when the dust settles on November 9th, we'll all get behind whoever wins, and start a new era in Billings politics.

M Fox said...

You're right, Eric. And win or lose, either way, I'll buy you lunch.

Mark said...

You Republicans stick together!

Anonymous said...

Mar, just outta curiosity, why do you find the chief so appealing? For you see, it doesn't jive. Seems like with your record, you be a big Al supporter, just like you were a big Racicrotch supporter, which is kinda like bein' an athletic supporter except that there are no balls, just a member!

5 said...

"Okay, Tony. How's this? Ron Tussing has never paid his own company a profit from his campaign contributions and never will."
Thats better!
Tussing is going to be good for us, while I dont like you because you tend to attack Garver rather than highlite Tussing, we would do much better to let Garver sink or swim.
I like Tussing, Im getting my blog ready for an LTTE storm, I have a sign in my yard and plan to keep talking about him to others.
You and I are on the same side, think about it. I wasnt won over by those attacking Garver but by learning about Ron. I was sure put out by those who attacked anyone who critiqued Ron.
Sugar or salt?

M Fox said...

Lar, you don't know me, and I'd prefer to keep it that way. ;)

Merry Ann said...

Holy miracle meds Batman!! Is that Tony?

Anonymous said...

"by learning about Ron"?!! YIKES! Like she "learned about Marky"! If I were "Ron", I'D RUN LIKE HELL! Looks like Mar is trying to trying to work her way back up the political ladder by the sycophancy route! Either that, or Mar's endorsement is some sort of new stealth tactic. It works like this. Have someone of Mar's particular reputation endorse the opposition! These Repugs are FULL of tricks! You've perhaps heard of old Indian tricks? This could be an old Repug trick!

M Fox said...

Larry, if you keep thinking too hard, your brain might explode. Do you go "anonymous" when you're at work so your supervisors have a tougher time identifying that you're using school equipment to mess around when you should be working? What a tricky guy you are.

Eric Coobs said...

It's a non-partisan office guys.

Just reminding you.

Anonymous said...

It is rather strange in a strnage year that both Mary Jo Fox and Local 30 are backing the same candidate...

Anonymous said...

That's kinda what I keep thinking, Eric. But you'll notice that Mar has YET to say why she jumped on the Chief like a dog on a bone!, other than she don't like Big Al. I still think it's some kinda reverse (or perverse) psycology at work here. I'm not gonna fall for it. I WHOLE-HEARTEDLY HEREBY DO WITH TREMENDOUS PLEASURE ENDORSE AND CAST MY SUPPORT FOR AL GARVER, THE NEXT MAYOR OF BILLINGS!

M Fox said...

Good job, Lar, I'm sure Mr. Garver will be thrilled to learn of your Great Falls endorsement.

Anonymous said...

Why, Mar, you DO have a sense of humor! Surprise, surprise! Boy, you sure didn't that time I called the gov's office with a simple question a few years back. You chewed my arse up one side and down the other. Never could figure out why. Maybe you were just having a bad day. I didn't get rude or nuthin'! I have never forgotten, and that kinda formed my lasting impression of you.

M Fox said...

I'm sure I've never spoken to you, Lar, because I'm sure I'd never forget you if I had. Have a nice day.

Anonymous said...

Hmm. That's curious. OK then, tell us just HOW MANY Mary Jo Foxes' worked in governor Racicrotch's office! Not many, I'd say. And if it indeed wasn't you, why would someone ELSE identify themselves as Mary Jo Fox??? Strange, don't you think? But then again, NOT FOR A REPUG!

M Fox said...

Like I said, you're unforgettable, Larry. And I only chuckle when I read your posts. Of course, I am always charming toward everyone.

Jim Larson said...

It would be unwise to underestimate Governor Racicot's ability to overcome adverse publicity. While he was governor he was was able to ride out disaster after disaster. The Magellan health care fiasco and energy deregulation come to mind.

One of the things that the Racicot administration knew how to do well was to shut up at the appropriate time.

While Mr. Garver is clearly a bright and capable man, he was ill-advised to issue a press release that brought attention to his lack of support in the public safety sector. Perhaps the label applied to those who represent themselves in court should be applied to those who act as consultants to their own campaigns.

M Fox said...

I couldn't agree more, Mr. Larson. Well said.

Anonymous said...

What's that giant sucking sound? Oh, never mind. It's just Mar suckin' up to Jimmy! Now Jimmy, "unwise"?? Oh REALLY?! The operative phrase here, Jimmy, is "while he was governor"! Take your OWN poll among friends and colleagues NOW. See how many to them will admit to voting for Racicrotch. Marky essentially destroyed the state, taking it straight to the bottom by nearly every measure. He said that we first had to "stabilize" things. Well sir, when you hit rock bottom, THAT'S PRETTY DAMN STABLE! Racicrotch (pronounced rossycrotch) was a supreme bullshiter and nothing more. He was a master. Most of the time what he said was absolute nonsense, but most Montanans not being real sophisticated or critical thinkers, thought he was a great orator! And the press in Montana treated him like bush, always giving him a pass on the hard questions. But I STILL remember the time when he was on national TV talking about the forest issues, and the interviewer made him look like an idiot! Montana reporters would never have done that! Or the time he called Cathy Siegner, after firing her for refusing to lie for him, a hysterical woman. Racicrotch was a sleazy cheese merchant. And THAT'S why he immediately left the state to work for bush's largest donor, Enron, after he left office. Jimmy, people know. NOW they know what Marky was all about. Ask around! Ask THEM to contribute something to his "legacy" project. Remember THAT fiasco? But I will give him this. He was shrewd. Handpicking Judy Mars to be his replacment was pure genius! I mean, Judy would make ANY, and I mean ANY, previous adminstration look great! And Judy was dumb enough to willing take the heat for Marky's policies! But I think that Racicrotch's approval ratings among Montanans will drop further and further as Schweitzer digs the state out of the hole he left behind. Funny thing is I don't hear many national organizations calling for Marky to run for pres., but PLENTY for Schweitzer! Hmmmm. Wonder why that is????? But the big reminder is every time we have to pay a utility bill. Racicrotch and his beloved dereg CAN'T be forgotten.

Anonymous said...

((((( yawn )))))

Anonymous said...

((((scratch))))

Anonymous said...

(((( sigh deeply ))))

Mark said...

((((giggle))))

Anonymous said...

Jim Larson said...
"It would be unwise to underestimate Governor Racicot's ability to overcome adverse publicity. While he was governor he was was able to ride out disaster after disaster. The Magellan health care fiasco and energy deregulation come to mind."

Dont forget, the Teflon Governor didnt know there was asbestos in his hometown either and there are some pretty good evidence that he dodged the Draft.

Anonymous said...

And Max Baucus didn't know asbestos was a problem in Libby back in the 70's, 80's and 90's, either. Are you going to hold him accountable, too, since he was our senator all these years?

Anonymous said...

MAx Baucus didnt grow up in Libby like the Teflon Governor did...


Racicot saying he didnt know there was asbestos in Libby is analagous the Rehberg saying he didnt know there was sulfur dioxide in Billings.

Anonymous said...

You've got the quote wrong. Racicot certainly knew about Vermiculite. As a kid, he used to swing over piles of it on a rope swing and drop into it. Hind sight about health hazards is always 20/20 about the many things we've eaten, drunk, smoked, painted with, done to our bodies, etc.

Anonymous said...

Quoting the Environmental Ranger, "Or the time he called Cathy Siegner, after firing her for refusing to lie for him, a hysterical woman"


Nice try Larry. The Governor doesnt have the power to fire a Department Staffer. Go read the articles in the Missoula Independant Archives and get your story straight.

What a moron! No wonder you cant get tenure.

Anonymous said...

My husband worked at DEQ with Cathy Seigner and he says she was acting pretty outrageous at the time she was canned. When the PR person for an entire department goes public with her personal diatribe against the department she works for, including her boss, she's demonstrating a desire to go solo. I'd say it was time for her to pack up.

Anonymous said...

The DEQ is a revolving door with a 35% a year turnover. The best doesnt last long at the DEQ. The department serves two purposes. One is a training program for new college graduates. The other is employent for slack jawed bureacrats and technocrats to draw a check every two weeks and tow the department line.

Anyone who has worked for the DEQ longer than 3 years is unemployable anywhere else.

Anonymous said...

According to todays paper, the DEQ employed an alleged child pornographer...

M Fox said...

Not true. My husband was at DEQ exactly three years. He was then hired as a private attorney for a business in Helena. He then joined a prestigious law firm in Helena where he is now a partner after less than two years with the firm. The DEQ is a training ground for a lot of professionals. That's because the salaries are so low, but it doesn't make the employees unqualified. Far from it.

Anonymous said...

You are reading into my post that which isnt there.


There is an ad for a "Senior Environmental Engineer" on the DEQ web site. The wages are less than what new grads make coming out of Montana Tech. No qualified environmental engineer will bother applying unless they are incompetent and cant find a job elsewhere. In reality the position will be filled by some rube with ANY engineering degree and the DEQ will call them a "Senior Environmental Engineer"

Thats why Jim Lloyd who has a degree in metallurgy and worked at ASARCO now works for DEQ as an "Environemntal Engineer" and wanders around the state clueless. In most other states they actually pay the technical help and dont have to stoop to hiring metalurgists as environmental engineers.

Anonymous said...

Hey, Mar, who does your hubby work for, wARD Shanahan?!! ha,aha,aha! Now, Mar, there were some "law firms" in Helena as CORRUPT AS THE RACICROTCH ADMINISTRATION ITSELF! Hell, these firms were bascially making DEQ policy! It was corporate crime at its finest! So to work for a firm such as this is freakin' HARDLY something to brag about! But about the DEQ, Racicrot put known nincompoops in charge of some of the depts, simply so they wouldn't make waves! True story! Like that gal who headed the hardrock division. I swear, she looked RETARDED!

Anonymous said...

Judas appointed a woman with an anthropology degree to run the DEQ...

Anonymous said...

How bout the guy who runs the Historical Society! Here's a moron who has a degree in something TOTALLY unrelated! Hey, them Repugs LIKE morons!

Anonymous said...

Republicans-the Party that gave us the best and the brightest-Stan Stephens and Judy Martz.

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