"Our aim, to swat liars and leeches, hypocrites & humbugs, demagogs & dastards"
-- The Yellow Jacket
Moravian Falls, N.C., 1919
I think you're taking it wrong David.(1) We're not talking about American citizens here, we're talking about our enemies, who are sworn to kill Americans.(2) What they consider degrading, such as pulling a G-string over a prisoners head doesn't seem out of line to me.(3) Our enemies give the people they capture/kidnap no good consideration.
I couldn't agree more with Coobs! I mean, I sure that Coobs had his jockstrap wrapped around his body more than ONCE in PE class to where he looked like a human pretzel by the time the bigger boys were finished with him! And he turned out alright.
Maybe we should take captured enemies, give then some money & some free cigarettes, and turn them loose? Cmon, it's a war!(Never had a jockstrap wrapped around me, but I've been popped with a few towels)
coobs-That's the exact same excuse that "our enemies" would use to torture our people in uniform overseas. You seem to believe that we are somehow better than "our enemies", which is why we can torture them. If this is the case, then why are you using their conduct as a guideline for our own? (#3)I believe that comment from anonymous (D Ricardo, black jack) is a good candidate for deletion. I haven't been on this blog for long but I'm sick and tired of the threads going down the tube almost immediately.
Its the only place left for trolls to play...
Eric,1. We can't let our enemies dictate how we behave. We have good reasons, some ethical and some practical, for our long tradition (not always honored) of refusing to abuse prisoners, no matter how evil their deeds.2. If it never went beyond G-strings, then what you say here would carry more weight. But there is plenty of evidence that it has gone well beyond that. Either way, as Capt. Fishback says, once you start down the path of tolerating abuse, it's awfully hard to know where to stop. 3. And that's why we have a country worth fighting for.
Laws against “torture” make some people feel good. They think that by passing a law extending US constitutional rights to all the terrorists in the world, nobody would dare “torture” a terrorist. It’s a snap. Pass a law against "cruel, inhuman or degrading" treatment and it stops.How would it all work in the real world? To begin, each terrorist would be issued a little plastic card to carry in his pocket--or in his underwear if his sheet had no pockets--that said: “WARNING: I am protected under the Fifth, Eighth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the US Constitution. Do not subject me to any cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.” Possibly, the card would include a toll-free 800 number to Sen. John McCain’s office or to the Washington Post if the terrorist needed customer service.Now all the terrorist has to worry about is accidentally blowing himself up while getting dressed or having the top of his head peeled back 8 inches by a Marine sniper’s bullet. Because, other than getting himself killed flat out, what’s the worst that can happen to him? Getting captured and thrown into prison is no big deal. The food’s great and, besides, he has a little plastic card to protect him.The only problem is, he doesn’t go to prison. He disappears.
I hope you don't consider my comment as an unwarranted intrusion. After perusing your blog, namely, "Billings Blog", I believe I can reasonably suppose both you and readers would welcome news of opposition to your "smirking chimp", my "dum'ya botch". In plainer terms, I want to run for Representative for Pennsylvania's 10th Congressional District on a platform calling for the impeachment of President George Walker Bush.Ah, before you click on any of the enclosed hyperlinks, please read the entirely of my comment. For example, the three planks I nailed together in my platform out to get me elected. "impeach bush" is the first plank. The second is "impeach bush". The third is like the second, "impeach bush".To continue, the first hyperlink below leads to the opening salvo of my campaign.http://hewhoisknownassefton.blogspot.com/2006/01/danger-senator-specter-danger.html As for the second hyperlink, it leads to evidence that my candidacy is about more than opposition solely for the sake of opposition.http://hewhoisknownassefton.blogspot.com/2006/01/dispelling-stench-in-oval.htmltoodles......\.he who is known as sefton
I don’t hear any complaints out there about the US Army torturing alleged Nazi “war criminals” to get them to confess.From: “The Hoax of the Twentieth Century,” by Arthur R. Butz, PhD. (1976, pp 40-42)The entire repertoire of third degree methods was enacted at [the Dachau trial]: beatings and brutal kicking, to the point of ruining testicles in 137 cases, knocking out teeth, starvation, solitary confinement, torture with burning splinters, and impersonation of priests in order to encourage prisoners to “confess.” Low rank prisoners were assured that convictions were being sought only against higher ranking officers and that they had absolutely nothing to lose by cooperating and making the desired statements. Such “evidence” was then used against them when they joined their superiors in the dock. The latter, on the other hand, had been told that by “confessing” they had taken all responsibility onto themselves, thereby shielding their men from trial. A favorite stratagem, when a prisoner refused to cooperate, was to arrange a mock trial. The prisoner was led into a room in which civilian investigators, dressed in U.S. Army uniforms, were seated around a black table with a crucifix in the center, with two candles providing the only light. This “court” then proceeded to hold a sham trial, at the conclusion of which a sham death sentence was passed. The “condemned” prisoner was later promised that, if he cooperated with the prosecutors in giving evidence, he would be reprieved. Sometimes interrogators threatened to turn prisoners over to the Russians. In many cases the prisoner’s family was threatened with loss of ration cards or other hardships if cooperation was not obtained.When the chief of the Dachau War Crimes Branch, Colonel A. H. Rosenfeld, quit his post in 1948, he was asked by newspapermen if there was any truth to the stories about the mock trials, at which sham death sentences had been passed. He replied: “Yes, of course. We couldn’t have made those birds talk otherwise. […] It was a trick, and it worked like a charm.”
I take it the "hoax" mentioned in the book title was the Holocaust. The Holocaust didn't happen and American soldiers tortured poor, innocent Germans, very handsome intelligent Germans. This isn't revisionism. This is lunacy. And this was, need I add, another Don Mellon post. The stench comes right through the computer screen.
Ed whoever you are--Wrong on all points. Do your homework before you run off at the mouth.
AimpointFYI, Ed Kemmick is a “writer” at the Billings Gazette. He’s your basic uneducated, delusional left winger. Like Calvin in the comic strip “Calvin and Hobbs,” Kemmick has an Anxiety Closet filled with monsters that roam around the blogosphere. If you’re new here you’ll get used to him and the others like him (“Larry,” “Tony,” etc.) Pay them no mind. Good post. I take it the “aimpoint” is that torture’s OK if you’re torturing the right people.
Aimpoint,You say Ed is "wrong on all points." But the subtitle of the book you cite, printed right on the cover, is "The Case Against The Presumed Extermination Of European Jewry."So you are being dishonest when you deny that "hoax" refers to the Holocaust. What else are you being dishonest about?
David: “Wrong on all points” means “totally off topic.” Read Ed Kemmick’s post again. He’s just ranting about crazy stuff. The topic is torture.And so what if the citation was incomplete? Is this like a college class or something? You found the correct title didn’t you? Or did you get the first edition instead of the third edition? Well EXCUSE me Mr. Professor! That was the third edition!What else are you being stupid about?
How am I off topic? My point is that entering into debate with lunatics is, well, lunacy. You want to argue that the moon is made of cheese and I'm supposed to stay on topic? And besides, I don't have to ivent another persona, "KTM," to back me up. Coward.
The topic is torture. The quote is accurate. All the information was gleaned from public sources.New York Times (Apr. 31, 1946), Utley, 185-200; Chicago Tribune (Apr. 30, 1948),12; (Feb. 13,1949), 3; (Feb. 14, 1949), 3; (Feb. 17, 1949), 8; New York Times (Oct. 31, 1948), sec. 4, 8.Do your homework. Take your meds.
And I'm sure Mr. Mellon went to the library and got out the microfilm to confirm the accuracy of the citations. But who needs to do that? An author who thinks the Holocaust didn't happen wouldn't make up citations, would he?
Ed Kemmick: The subject is torture. Put up or shut up
Owoooooooo!Who's that I see walkin' in these woods?Why, it's Little Ed Riding Hood.Hey there Little Ed Riding Hood,You sure are looking good.You're everything a big bad wolf could want.Listen to me.Little Ed Riding HoodI don't think little big girls shouldGo walking in these spooky old woods alone.Owoooooooo!
Black Jack, Aimpoint, Don Mellon, Weenie, Coward, whatever the hell you're calling yourself at the moment, the subject WAS torture. You changed it to alleged American mistreatment of Nazis. What in God's name was the point of that digression? And are you saying you're the wolf who put on granny's nightgown in order to molest the little girl? Yep, that sounds like Don Mellon.
mr. femmick // i think you're losing it. pls stop.
"femmick" That's great, Mary! Must've been a Freudian slip.Owoooooooo!
We’re supposed to believe Ed Kemmick? Who is he? What does he know about the current state of historical research into the so-called Holocaust?Over the last 30 years, hundreds of books disputing various aspects of the Holocaust legend have been published by American and European scholars. These writers all have academic credentials. What does Kemmick have for credentials? A bunch of clippings from “City Lights”?Kemmick, like so many uninformed journalists in the controlled media, merely spouts the party line. But those days are coming to an end. The cat’s out of the bag. No amount of name-calling and censorship laws will stop an open debate on the Holocaust legend.[From the Greek news service AKI, “Holocaust Conference Soon in Tehran,” Jan. 5.]"President Ahmadinejad has placed at the centre of international attention, a very important question on the truthfulness of the version that Europe and the Zionists have imposed on the world on the murder of Jews during the years of the great war, and therefore we are of the opinion that it is useful and necessary to organise an international conference on that theme, where all the historians and researchers, even those that do not believe in the official version, will be able to express themselves freely," Mehdi Afzali, spokesperson of the Association of Islamic Journalists told Adnkronos International (AKI).[From the same article.]"We want to offer a free and democratic platform to the historians to examine in-depth this myth, seeing that in different European countries there exist laws against democracy and freedom that to do not allow intellectuals who believe in a version distinct from that which is officially pronounced on the Holocaust," added Afzali. ***The AP sat on the above story for 10 days, no doubt trying to figure out a way to suppress it or spin it. Finally, with the story sweeping across the globe, the AP decided to issue a water-down version, which was published today, Jan. 15, under the head, “Iran Announces Conference on Holocaust,” by Nasser Karimi. Iran’s foreign minister is quoted as saying, “"It is a strange world. It is possible to discuss everything except the Holocaust."Strange, indeed. Strange that people with no knowledge of the subject, such as Ed Kemmick, would set himself up as an authority.
Iran will host a "free and democratic" discussion of what it already describes as a myth. Great! Don Mellon will also be pleased to know that North Korea will soon be hosting a "wide-open, no-holds-barred" conference on the triumph of communism over capitalism. The damned captive media haven't reported on this one yet.
Owoooooooo!Who's that I see walkin' in these woods?Why, it's Little Ed Riding Hood!
***Coming Soon*** Ed Kemmick will start telling us that Iran and North Korea are “rogue nations” and are part of an “Axis of Evil.” He will then go on to proclaim Austria, Canada, France, Germany, Switzerland, etc. to be paragons of "free and democratic “ nations because they have enacted laws prohibiting any speech or writing that calls into question the Holocaust. Finally, after Bush attacks Iran, Ed Kemmick will declare the attack was necessary to halt the spread of nuclear weapons and “Holocaust denial.”“Don Mellon” will probably be very pleased, whoever he is.
David: I'm sorry to have clogged your blog with attempts to make Don Mellon come out of his closet. Your regular readers don't need any help from me in dealing with a clown who believes that being gay means you are objectively disordered, or whatever his line was, or that Hitler's extermination of Polish Jews was a happy event, or that the Holocaust didn't happen. Besides, I'm just me. I can't argue with Don and his 15-20 pseudonyms. Satire is as unlikely as facts to penetrate his witless head. I'll surrender the field to Don and let him rant all by his lonesome.
Little Ed Riding HoodI don't think little big girls shouldGo walking in these spooky old woods alone.Owoooooooo!
All right, I lied. So sue me. I have to add one thing before this thread expires. I finally got around to googling Don P. Mellon of Ennis and --- surprise! He appears all over the Web, again and again, precisely as he appears here: a troll, a sockpuppet, a multiple-personality loser whose only apparent hobby is making a nuisance of himself. Just put his name in Google and have a look. Then take a quick shower. (Cue up your song, Don, since it's all you have left.) There. NOW I'm done.
Ed - as one guy said over at Left in the West, "Stop talking to it."
ed kemmick. maybe some hateful person like you used that mans name. You’ve been smearing the name ‘don mellon of ennis’ in this blog and other groups for months just to get those words on the search engines. you arent very clever and you aren’t fooling anbody. maybe some REALLY clever hateful person right now is using ‘ed kemmick of billings’ all over the internet. google yourself before you go to bed each night
Ed,As Mark T said, ignore it. Anyone foolish enough to agree with Iran's President and a bunch of other kooks who want to think the holocaust didn't happen doesn't deserve a response. People like Mr. Mellon really tick off people like me. He gives conservatives a black eye. He's even worse than Larry. At least Larry isn't too afraid to put his own name to his words. "Troll" is too nice a word.
Hey Rocky who ya gonna believe the president of israel? He's brain dead! You're probably pissed off because you're not a real conservative or you don't read much and can't figure out whats happening in the world.
*** The Kemmick Weasels at Work ***Below are the last three paragraphs from an article entitled, “The West and the ‘Hoax’ocaust,” by Lee Harris, TCS Daily, Jan. 6, 2006. The same article was reprinted in The Dallas Morning News, Jan. 15, 2006, with the title, “The new deniers.” Compare the copies to see how the Kemmick Weasels work!***[TCS Daily original version, “The West and the ‘Hoax’ocaust.”]We in the West have already rewritten a great deal of history in the name of cultural tolerance and diversity. [“Black history,” “Native American history,” “Women’s history,” etc.] But are we prepared to deny the truth of the Holocaust in the name of the same principles? Yet, if you think about it, why not? After all, if different cultures can have different values, why not let them write different histories? Who’s to say whose history is right anyway? Are not Muslims entitled to their own interpretation of the historical past, like everyone else? What gives the West the right to impose its own ethnocentric interpretation of history on the rest of mankind? If the West insists on forcing Muslim to accept that the Holocaust really occurred, isn’t this a form of “historical” imperialism? You see here the slippery slope upon which the West has so frequently lost its footing of late. Let us hope that, in this one instance at least, it is prepared to dig its heels in and stand firm. [The Dallas Morning News version, “The new deniers.”]We in the West have already rewritten a great deal of history in the name of cultural tolerance and diversity. But are we prepared to deny the truth of the Holocaust in the name of the same principles? Let us hope that, in this one instance at least, the West is prepared to dig in its heels and stand firm.***A message to all Kemmick Weasels from JS Mill:"[I]t is not on the impassioned partisan, it is on the calmer and more disinterested bystander, that this collision of opinions works its salutary effect. Not the violent conflict between parts of the truth, but the quiet suppression of half of it, is the formidable evil: there is always hope when people are forced to listen to both sides; it is when they attend only to one that errors harden into prejudices, and truth itself ceases to have the effect of truth, by being exaggerated into falsehood."
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